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	<title>Comments on: The Education Charade</title>
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	<link>http://www.educationforum.lk/2006/07/the-education-charade/</link>
	<description>Discussion on Sri Lankan Education Issues</description>
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		<title>By: SAMHA</title>
		<link>http://www.educationforum.lk/2006/07/the-education-charade/comment-page-1/#comment-22301</link>
		<dc:creator>SAMHA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>HI SISTERS AND BRATHAR I WAS PAS THE SCOLER SHIP AGASSAM SO I AM THANKS TO ALLAH</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HI SISTERS AND BRATHAR I WAS PAS THE SCOLER SHIP AGASSAM SO I AM THANKS TO ALLAH</p>
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		<title>By: shiran</title>
		<link>http://www.educationforum.lk/2006/07/the-education-charade/comment-page-1/#comment-16530</link>
		<dc:creator>shiran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://http://www.educationforum.lk/2006/07/the-education-charade/#comment-16530</guid>
		<description>hello guys i want to know about free education system of srilanka when it was start and what are the benifits and also about Current  literacy  rates</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hello guys i want to know about free education system of srilanka when it was start and what are the benifits and also about Current  literacy  rates</p>
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		<title>By: sujata</title>
		<link>http://www.educationforum.lk/2006/07/the-education-charade/comment-page-1/#comment-358</link>
		<dc:creator>sujata</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://http://www.educationforum.lk/2006/07/the-education-charade/#comment-358</guid>
		<description>I guess that&#039;s it for now for this debate. See you at the next one! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess that&#8217;s it for now for this debate. See you at the next one! <img src='http://www.educationforum.lk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ashley</title>
		<link>http://www.educationforum.lk/2006/07/the-education-charade/comment-page-1/#comment-347</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Aug 2006 03:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://http://www.educationforum.lk/2006/07/the-education-charade/#comment-347</guid>
		<description>&quot;If Asheley thinks our education system is going to deliver a new kind of citizen, he/she is dreaming.Same if he/she thinks that our countries are going to have ‘good’ politicians and ‘good’ public servants.&quot;

It looks like you were hasty in your reply :) You should read my postings again.
I said our current system won&#039;t, but a good education system will. In fact that is the most fundamental goal of education, tought by Aristotle. Leave aside the classics, there is a vast amount of modern literature on that premise, but then you as forum coordinator are probably already familiar with them. If by chance you aren&#039;t, I suggest starting with

Investment in Learning
The Individual and Social Value of American Higher Education
Howard R. Bowen
ISBN: 1-56000-888-1
1996, Transaction Publishers.

Regarding the rest of your rebuttal, I have nothing further to say than what I&#039;ve already said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If Asheley thinks our education system is going to deliver a new kind of citizen, he/she is dreaming.Same if he/she thinks that our countries are going to have ‘good’ politicians and ‘good’ public servants.&#8221;</p>
<p>It looks like you were hasty in your reply <img src='http://www.educationforum.lk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  You should read my postings again.<br />
I said our current system won&#8217;t, but a good education system will. In fact that is the most fundamental goal of education, tought by Aristotle. Leave aside the classics, there is a vast amount of modern literature on that premise, but then you as forum coordinator are probably already familiar with them. If by chance you aren&#8217;t, I suggest starting with</p>
<p>Investment in Learning<br />
The Individual and Social Value of American Higher Education<br />
Howard R. Bowen<br />
ISBN: 1-56000-888-1<br />
1996, Transaction Publishers.</p>
<p>Regarding the rest of your rebuttal, I have nothing further to say than what I&#8217;ve already said.</p>
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		<title>By: sujata</title>
		<link>http://www.educationforum.lk/2006/07/the-education-charade/comment-page-1/#comment-346</link>
		<dc:creator>sujata</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:40:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://http://www.educationforum.lk/2006/07/the-education-charade/#comment-346</guid>
		<description>If Asheley thinks our education system is going to deliver a new kind of citizen, he/she is dreaming. Same if he/she thinks that our countries are going to have &#039;good&#039; politicians and &#039;good&#039; public servants. Politics and government service both have become ways of capturing public resources, and only rapid economic growth will make that incentive go away. Preaching will not work.

I am not implying private schools should fill the gap, I am insisting they should, and they should have the freeedom to charge fees.. 

Just what does Ashely mean by saying the choice should be available but money should not be the differentiator. THe government taxes and spends it on schooling. If Mahabodhi Society wants to start another Musaeus College in Matara  or somewhere, how are they going to get the money if they don&#039;t charge tuition.  THen take the case of a woman from  Kamburupitiya who goes to middle east and decides that the best investment for her money is not to buy jewellery that she ends up burying in the back yard to prevent robberies but to wishes to send her daughter to a good school that opens middle clas doors to the child. Sujatha Vidyalaya or another popular school is going out of the question for her. Entry to those are already captured by the middle class and the girl is not the type to cram for 5th grade scholarship exam. What is she to do? Wait for utopia where politicans serve and public servant do their duty? Why should not she have a choice. The poor has many faces and pocket-books of varying sizes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Asheley thinks our education system is going to deliver a new kind of citizen, he/she is dreaming. Same if he/she thinks that our countries are going to have &#8216;good&#8217; politicians and &#8216;good&#8217; public servants. Politics and government service both have become ways of capturing public resources, and only rapid economic growth will make that incentive go away. Preaching will not work.</p>
<p>I am not implying private schools should fill the gap, I am insisting they should, and they should have the freeedom to charge fees.. </p>
<p>Just what does Ashely mean by saying the choice should be available but money should not be the differentiator. THe government taxes and spends it on schooling. If Mahabodhi Society wants to start another Musaeus College in Matara  or somewhere, how are they going to get the money if they don&#8217;t charge tuition.  THen take the case of a woman from  Kamburupitiya who goes to middle east and decides that the best investment for her money is not to buy jewellery that she ends up burying in the back yard to prevent robberies but to wishes to send her daughter to a good school that opens middle clas doors to the child. Sujatha Vidyalaya or another popular school is going out of the question for her. Entry to those are already captured by the middle class and the girl is not the type to cram for 5th grade scholarship exam. What is she to do? Wait for utopia where politicans serve and public servant do their duty? Why should not she have a choice. The poor has many faces and pocket-books of varying sizes.</p>
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		<title>By: Ashley</title>
		<link>http://www.educationforum.lk/2006/07/the-education-charade/comment-page-1/#comment-329</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Aug 2006 03:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://http://www.educationforum.lk/2006/07/the-education-charade/#comment-329</guid>
		<description>We&#039;re back where we started. It is accepted that Sri Lankan public education has much room for improvement. Expecting private schools to fill the gaps is not the solution. I understand that wasn&#039;t what you were implying, but it is a likely consequence. I&#039;m not arguing against private schools. If one has the means, the choice should be available. I&#039;m with you there. It is just that money shouldn&#039;t be the differentiator, that &quot;extra mile&quot; as you say above, between a quality and mediocre education. If the public education system is broken, it needs to be fixed because it is the only hope for the poor.

The reasons you give for Norway and Iceland not being good examples are valid, but not for what I meant them to be. I believe they are good examples of what can be achieved with a well thought out education policy, because I also believe their pot is large partly due to their investment in education. The factors barring Sri Lanka from emulating them can all be boiled down to the lack of education. Corruption, poverty, ethnic violence, religious prejudice, gender bias, the feed-me mentality, you name it, they&#039;re all rooted in ignorance (the opposite of which is admittedly beyond the generally accepted academic kind of education, still achievable along that path). It&#039;ll take selfless leadership and a few generations after change is initiated, to get ourselves out of this mire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re back where we started. It is accepted that Sri Lankan public education has much room for improvement. Expecting private schools to fill the gaps is not the solution. I understand that wasn&#8217;t what you were implying, but it is a likely consequence. I&#8217;m not arguing against private schools. If one has the means, the choice should be available. I&#8217;m with you there. It is just that money shouldn&#8217;t be the differentiator, that &#8220;extra mile&#8221; as you say above, between a quality and mediocre education. If the public education system is broken, it needs to be fixed because it is the only hope for the poor.</p>
<p>The reasons you give for Norway and Iceland not being good examples are valid, but not for what I meant them to be. I believe they are good examples of what can be achieved with a well thought out education policy, because I also believe their pot is large partly due to their investment in education. The factors barring Sri Lanka from emulating them can all be boiled down to the lack of education. Corruption, poverty, ethnic violence, religious prejudice, gender bias, the feed-me mentality, you name it, they&#8217;re all rooted in ignorance (the opposite of which is admittedly beyond the generally accepted academic kind of education, still achievable along that path). It&#8217;ll take selfless leadership and a few generations after change is initiated, to get ourselves out of this mire.</p>
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		<title>By: sujata</title>
		<link>http://www.educationforum.lk/2006/07/the-education-charade/comment-page-1/#comment-319</link>
		<dc:creator>sujata</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://http://www.educationforum.lk/2006/07/the-education-charade/#comment-319</guid>
		<description>To Ashley: I cited communist countries because the current situation in Sri Lanka is shockingly similar to what has been proven to be a sham in those countries.-- i.e. promising free-of-charge services and amenities to all, while taking the freedom of seeking private options from anybody who wishes to opt out.

Norway and Iceland are not good examples. In those countries, the pot (GDP) is large and the spooning-out is fair (governance).  In developing countries such as ours the pot is small and the spoon is captured by elite groups (politicians, their supporters, and government officials) in the name of free education. 

My post was not about the free-of-charge provision of primary and secondary education. There is no question that primary and secondary education should be offered free to low income groups if not to all school-age children. My concern is about the effective banning of private education and forcing public education on everybody  in a country where the public sphere is corrupt and ineffective.

Tez&#039;s link to the Friedman show is a little ahead of the argument. The debate there was not about the right of private institutions to offer primary and secondary education because the American constitution would not allow legislation that bars individual freedom. The debate in the USA is whether the students attending those private schools should receive government aid in the form of vouchers. 

In Sri Lanka we are still in square one, seeking the right to operate private schools and having those students have the right to sit for public exams and be eligible for admission to public universities. The fight for vouchers too need to happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Ashley: I cited communist countries because the current situation in Sri Lanka is shockingly similar to what has been proven to be a sham in those countries.&#8211; i.e. promising free-of-charge services and amenities to all, while taking the freedom of seeking private options from anybody who wishes to opt out.</p>
<p>Norway and Iceland are not good examples. In those countries, the pot (GDP) is large and the spooning-out is fair (governance).  In developing countries such as ours the pot is small and the spoon is captured by elite groups (politicians, their supporters, and government officials) in the name of free education. </p>
<p>My post was not about the free-of-charge provision of primary and secondary education. There is no question that primary and secondary education should be offered free to low income groups if not to all school-age children. My concern is about the effective banning of private education and forcing public education on everybody  in a country where the public sphere is corrupt and ineffective.</p>
<p>Tez&#8217;s link to the Friedman show is a little ahead of the argument. The debate there was not about the right of private institutions to offer primary and secondary education because the American constitution would not allow legislation that bars individual freedom. The debate in the USA is whether the students attending those private schools should receive government aid in the form of vouchers. </p>
<p>In Sri Lanka we are still in square one, seeking the right to operate private schools and having those students have the right to sit for public exams and be eligible for admission to public universities. The fight for vouchers too need to happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Tez</title>
		<link>http://www.educationforum.lk/2006/07/the-education-charade/comment-page-1/#comment-316</link>
		<dc:creator>Tez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 08:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://http://www.educationforum.lk/2006/07/the-education-charade/#comment-316</guid>
		<description>I was just reading the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.freetochoose.net/1980_vol6_transcript.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;transcript&lt;/a&gt; of a Milton Friedman show on a similar issue, (&lt;a href=&quot;http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7302782618479711536&amp;q=free+to+choose&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;video&lt;/a&gt; also online) and the rather interesting debate that follows, mostly heated argument on the subject of vouchers -which Rohan Samarajiva also mentions in his piece linked above as something that could complement the public-private partnerships that you mention in this article. I thought perhaps some of the readers here might find the debate interesting.

On a different, more personal note, do you know anything about homeschooling in Sri Lanka? Whether it happens at all, for starters? I&#039;m not sure if this is considered a subset of &quot;private schooling&quot;. I understand that homeschooling is obviously not a viable option for low-income parents and is therefore not a general solution for anything, but for middle-class folks who are sufficiently worried and sufficiently obstinate -and I count myself in this category- it&#039;s something to think about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just reading the <a href="http://www.freetochoose.net/1980_vol6_transcript.html" rel="nofollow">transcript</a> of a Milton Friedman show on a similar issue, (<a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7302782618479711536&amp;q=free+to+choose" rel="nofollow">video</a> also online) and the rather interesting debate that follows, mostly heated argument on the subject of vouchers -which Rohan Samarajiva also mentions in his piece linked above as something that could complement the public-private partnerships that you mention in this article. I thought perhaps some of the readers here might find the debate interesting.</p>
<p>On a different, more personal note, do you know anything about homeschooling in Sri Lanka? Whether it happens at all, for starters? I&#8217;m not sure if this is considered a subset of &#8220;private schooling&#8221;. I understand that homeschooling is obviously not a viable option for low-income parents and is therefore not a general solution for anything, but for middle-class folks who are sufficiently worried and sufficiently obstinate -and I count myself in this category- it&#8217;s something to think about.</p>
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		<title>By: Ashley</title>
		<link>http://www.educationforum.lk/2006/07/the-education-charade/comment-page-1/#comment-299</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Aug 2006 04:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://http://www.educationforum.lk/2006/07/the-education-charade/#comment-299</guid>
		<description>I was not commenting on tertiary education because I understood your article to be mainly about primary education. To quote from the 2006 Education for all global monitoring report by UNESCO
(http://portal.unesco.org/education/en/ev.php-URL_ID=43047&amp;URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&amp;URL_SECTION=201.html)
    &quot;The charging of fees remains a major barrier to progress towards Universal Primary Education.&quot;

Why would one look to Russia or China for a model ?
If I were looking for a system worth emulating, I&#039;d start, well since this only an illustration, how about the UNDP human development report ?
http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2005/
Let&#039;s just pick the top 3 countries.

#1 Norway
To quote from the Norway ministry of education
http://odin.dep.no/kd/english/topics/education/014081-120036/dok-bn.html
    &quot;Education for all is a basic precept of Norwegian educational policy.
     Wherever they live in the country, all girls and boys must have an equal
     right to education, regardless of social and cultural background and
     possible special needs. All public education in Norway is free up to and
     including the upper secondary level.&quot;

#2 Iceland
(http://www.icelandexport.is/english/about_iceland/educational_system_in_iceland/)
    &quot;Educational system in Iceland is one of the best in the world. The fundamental
     principle of the Icelandic educational system is that everyone should have
     equal opportunities to acquire an education, irrespective of sex, economic status,
     residential location, religion, possible handicap, and cultural or social
     background.&quot;

#3 Australia
To quote from the Adelaide declaration on National Goals for schooling
(http://www.dest.gov.au/sectors/school_education/policy_initiatives_reviews/national_goals_for_schooling_in_the_twenty_first_century.htm)
    &quot;all students have access to the high quality education necessary to enable
     the completion of school education to Year 12&quot;
I couldn&#039;t find an authoritative source, but read in various web pages that public schools were free. Their private schools serve 32% of the student population. So there&#039;s a country to look at for a model of privatization.

ok, so using UNDP report as a basis can be argued to be arbitrary. My point is there are some countries that have successful implementations of a free education policy and they seem to have reaped the benefits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was not commenting on tertiary education because I understood your article to be mainly about primary education. To quote from the 2006 Education for all global monitoring report by UNESCO<br />
(<a href="http://portal.unesco.org/education/en/ev.php-URL_ID=43047&amp;URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&amp;URL_SECTION=201.html" rel="nofollow">http://portal.unesco.org/education/en/ev.php-URL_ID=43047&amp;URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&amp;URL_SECTION=201.html</a>)<br />
    &#8220;The charging of fees remains a major barrier to progress towards Universal Primary Education.&#8221;</p>
<p>Why would one look to Russia or China for a model ?<br />
If I were looking for a system worth emulating, I&#8217;d start, well since this only an illustration, how about the UNDP human development report ?<br />
<a href="http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2005/" rel="nofollow">http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2005/</a><br />
Let&#8217;s just pick the top 3 countries.</p>
<p>#1 Norway<br />
To quote from the Norway ministry of education<br />
<a href="http://odin.dep.no/kd/english/topics/education/014081-120036/dok-bn.html" rel="nofollow">http://odin.dep.no/kd/english/topics/education/014081-120036/dok-bn.html</a><br />
    &#8220;Education for all is a basic precept of Norwegian educational policy.<br />
     Wherever they live in the country, all girls and boys must have an equal<br />
     right to education, regardless of social and cultural background and<br />
     possible special needs. All public education in Norway is free up to and<br />
     including the upper secondary level.&#8221;</p>
<p>#2 Iceland<br />
(<a href="http://www.icelandexport.is/english/about_iceland/educational_system_in_iceland/" rel="nofollow">http://www.icelandexport.is/english/about_iceland/educational_system_in_iceland/</a>)<br />
    &#8220;Educational system in Iceland is one of the best in the world. The fundamental<br />
     principle of the Icelandic educational system is that everyone should have<br />
     equal opportunities to acquire an education, irrespective of sex, economic status,<br />
     residential location, religion, possible handicap, and cultural or social<br />
     background.&#8221;</p>
<p>#3 Australia<br />
To quote from the Adelaide declaration on National Goals for schooling<br />
(<a href="http://www.dest.gov.au/sectors/school_education/policy_initiatives_reviews/national_goals_for_schooling_in_the_twenty_first_century.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.dest.gov.au/sectors/school_education/policy_initiatives_reviews/national_goals_for_schooling_in_the_twenty_first_century.htm</a>)<br />
    &#8220;all students have access to the high quality education necessary to enable<br />
     the completion of school education to Year 12&#8243;<br />
I couldn&#8217;t find an authoritative source, but read in various web pages that public schools were free. Their private schools serve 32% of the student population. So there&#8217;s a country to look at for a model of privatization.</p>
<p>ok, so using UNDP report as a basis can be argued to be arbitrary. My point is there are some countries that have successful implementations of a free education policy and they seem to have reaped the benefits.</p>
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		<title>By: sujata</title>
		<link>http://www.educationforum.lk/2006/07/the-education-charade/comment-page-1/#comment-267</link>
		<dc:creator>sujata</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://http://www.educationforum.lk/2006/07/the-education-charade/#comment-267</guid>
		<description>According to Ashley &quot;Quality education [should] be equally accessible to all social classes&quot;. 

The kind of ideal that Ashley and many others use to end their arguments is a very difficult one to counter, considering that it took countries like Soviet Union and China many many years to experiment and learn. Here is a quote from the 2005 Annual report from Central Bank-the guys who have to decide whether to allocate money to school lunches or provide more free-of-charge tertiary education. 

International studies show that the social rate of return of
primary and secondary education is significantly higher
than the private rate of return. This justifies the continuation
of public investment in primary and secondary education.
However, the private rate of return is higher in tertiary
education, thus indicating that it is reasonable to charge
individuals for their tertiary education.
[Central Bank of Sri Lanka Annual Report - 2005, page 54] 
.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to Ashley &#8220;Quality education [should] be equally accessible to all social classes&#8221;. </p>
<p>The kind of ideal that Ashley and many others use to end their arguments is a very difficult one to counter, considering that it took countries like Soviet Union and China many many years to experiment and learn. Here is a quote from the 2005 Annual report from Central Bank-the guys who have to decide whether to allocate money to school lunches or provide more free-of-charge tertiary education. </p>
<p>International studies show that the social rate of return of<br />
primary and secondary education is significantly higher<br />
than the private rate of return. This justifies the continuation<br />
of public investment in primary and secondary education.<br />
However, the private rate of return is higher in tertiary<br />
education, thus indicating that it is reasonable to charge<br />
individuals for their tertiary education.<br />
[Central Bank of Sri Lanka Annual Report - 2005, page 54]<br />
.</p>
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